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Word order

SystemSystem Posts: 15 mod
edited November 2016 in A Question of English
@gam01hr - I split your question from: Ask Questions Here.
Tagged:

Comments

  • gam01hrgam01hr Posts: 147 ✭✭✭
    Hello, forgive my ignorance.
    What is the right order of words, when creating this question?

    1/ When
    2/ will
    3/ be
    4/ new version of program
    5/ available?
  • LynneLynne Your Teacher HomePosts: 9,069 mod
    You are missing some articles. So, it's not possible to create a sentence using only those words.
  • gam01hrgam01hr Posts: 147 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2016
    Let me try:
    When will be the new version of program available?
    Is it correct please?
  • Matteo91Matteo91 Posts: 3
    I don't know which is the right order but it does not sound correct to me...I probably would say "when will be available the new program version?" rather than"When will be the new version of program available?"
  • gam01hrgam01hr Posts: 147 ✭✭✭
    edited January 3
    My second guess is:
    When will *something* be available?
    With help of google, example like this pattern is:
    I saw an item out of stock, when will it be available again?
  • YevhenYevhen Posts: 71 ✭✭
    Hi guys. I saw this post a long time ago.

    Let's consider the following sentence structure:

    S + V + sC

    Subject (what we talk about) +
    Verb (shows an action and it's tense; here we have "to be") +
    subject Complement (completes an idea about the subject)

    Example:
    I (subject) am (present of "to be") a student (subject complement). "I = student".
    I will be ("will be" - future of "to be") a teacher.

    In the last sentence, the main verb is "to be" and "will" is an auxiliary verb that shows "future".

    How to make a question to that sentence?
    Will I be a teacher?

    The subject "I" is between the auxiliary and main verbs.

    @gam01hr , let's return to your question. What is the subject? It is a noun clause (the head noun and any other words modifying it): "a new version of the program".

    Let's use the rules I described earlier:

    "Subject" will be available.
    Will "subject" be available?
    When will "subject" be available?

    You were right in your last suggestion. Here is the final version:

    When will "a new version of the program" (subject) be available?


    @Matteo91 , you can use nouns like adjectives to modify other nouns:
    a basketball/soccer coach
    a plastic/leither chair

    In both examples above, only the last words (a coach, a chair) are considered as nouns. "basketball/soccer" and "plastic/leither" act like adjectives.

    Also, nouns are used to show possession:

    John's friend (the apostrofe ' shows possesion and "John's" acts like an adjective to modify the noun "friend")

    You can use the "of structure" to show possession:
    a friend of Jonh's (his / her / mine)

    If you consider possession, think that something "have or has" something else. For example, a story has two versions:

    a text version;
    an audio version.

    but

    "a story's version" or "a version of the story"

    The same goes for a program. We are not describing a version, instead, we are showing that a program owns version (possession). The program "has" a version:

    "a program's version" or "a version or the program".
  • mheredgemheredge Wordsmith Here and therePosts: 25,283 mod
    Don't forget your articles! The and a are missing in some of your sentences. Check that you are using the right one too.
  • YevhenYevhen Posts: 71 ✭✭
    Hi @mheredge . Could you please explain this mess with articles by providing the usages with some context?

    Which one is correct and when:

    a(the) new version of (a/the) program;
    (a/the) kind of (a/the) thing/case/whatever;
    a/the meaning of (a/the) idiom;
    a nose of (a/the) human.

    It is really confusing.

    I though about the usage of "new" like with items in a list:
    ver_1, ver_2, ver_3, ... , the last one ("the new one");

    But I heard that the context matters:

    1. I am a software engineer and work in a team. We are in a development proccess. We know which program we write, so "the" should be used.

    If we talk about the final realease of the program (again, the smth of the? smth), we should say "the new version of the program".

    We work on the program to improve it's quality etc, and deploy new versions to a server every two days. Should we use "a new version of the program" meaning "any of new versions, but not the final"?

    2. I am a teacher. My subject is related to some theory of programming and development. I am in class and tell students about a program they might develop in the future and it's versions. I would say: "... but the new version of a program will not be available in time".

    It means any abstract program, not specific. But I use "a/the" rules with "version" that I described in the previous bullet.

    What about other questions in my list? Or you could share some useful links.
  • YevhenYevhen Posts: 71 ✭✭
    Hi @gam01hr . There is nothing special about articles: you can read the difference in any available source.

    I asked Cristian, an English teacher, about articles in your "subject". Check the following link out to know the answer:
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYSpgteZobU&feature=youtu.be&t=2035

    Let me know if you can't visit the link for some reasons.
  • mheredgemheredge Wordsmith Here and therePosts: 25,283 mod
    When you use the, this is referring to some specific,, that you have mentioned before.

    A car was parked in front of my house. The car was newondering and I had never seen it before.

    The is the definite article and a is the indefinite article.
    Yevhen wrote: »
    Hi @mheredge . Could you please explain this mess with articles by providing the usages with some context?

    a(the) new version of (a/the) program - either depending on context
    the kind of thing/case/whatever;
    a/the meaning of (a/the) idiom; the is specific, a means there's more than one
    The nose of (a/the) human - a human only has one nose, but human - specific or non specific?

    We work on the program to improve it's quality etc, and deploy new versions to a server every two days. Should we use "a new version of the program" meaning "any of new versions, but not the final"?

    You can use 'a' but then if you talk about this particular new version again, it become the, as it is specific and refers to something you have already mentioned.

    2. I am a teacher. My subject is related to some theory of programming and development. I am in class and tell the students about a program they might develop in the future and it's versions. I would say: "... but a new version of the program will not be available in time".
    .

    If you Google 'use of articles ' you will find many useful links like https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/540/01/
  • YevhenYevhen Posts: 71 ✭✭
    Hi @mheredge. As always, you are what I call helpful and needed to be thanked.
    Many thanks for spending your time reading our posts and correcting our Somethinglish.

    I really wanted to write "a hand of a human", but then I thougt: "what if write a nose?". You answered to that question too. You are awesome :)
  • mheredgemheredge Wordsmith Here and therePosts: 25,283 mod
    But you only have one nose @Yevhen. You have two hands and could give your friend a hand if he needed help.
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