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Beautiful December

Now, when the garden awaits the return of spring
Now, when the silence is deep and blue
Now, when the winter has cast her spell again
Beautiful December, Beautiful December

Here, where the snow is as soft as a woolly lamb
Here, where the nightfall is deep and blue,
Here, where the stars are so bright, you reach for them
Beautiful December, Beautiful December

Child, may you sleep in gentle peace tonight
Dream of songs that rise on silken wings!
When you wake, enchanted by the snowspun light
Sing the songs that came to you in dreams,
Your beautiful December dreams
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Burkini ban

mheredgemheredge TeacherHere and therePosts: 28,504 mod
edited August 2016 in Archived News 2016
The burkini has created controversy in France. It has been banned in 15 towns in the south-east and there is tension after deadly jihadist attacks. Ironically the ban of what seems to be perfectly acceptable garb for the beach, especially if you don't want to bear your all to the damaging rays of the sun has increased the popularity of such swimwear among non-Muslims.

I must be missing the point, but I can't work out what the problem the French authorities have with it.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/23/burkini-bans-in-france-have-sales-of-full-body-swimsuit-soaring-says-designer?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=187165&subid=11006640&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2


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Comments

  • Practical_SeverardPractical_Severard Posts: 651 ✭✭✭
    It's populism. While the garb is ridiculous, banning a clothes' style isn't a right thing in my book. A government should have its limits. It can ban face covering - for the sake of public security or too open clothes, T-shirt inscriptions - for their obscenity. Not for style. Members of the public, though, should be free from any kind of state punishment for making fun of all the above, verbal bullying, pointing fingers and such. Owners of private beeches, if there are any, should be free to place a dresscode, though.
  • mheredgemheredge Teacher Here and therePosts: 28,504 mod
    edited August 2016
    I agree @Practical_Severard. The French police made a woman take off her burkini yesterday in Nice. Yet when I was walking around the Place Massena, just a hundred metres in from the sea where there are fountains and kids play in the water, I saw quite a lot of ladies covered up (as is their right) and no one was giving them any hassle.

    Ironically a few days ago I saw a poster in a museum in Nice dating from the nineteenth century, forbidding people to swim nude from the beaches along the Promenade des Anglais!

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/24/french-police-make-woman-remove-burkini-on-nice-beach?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=187299&subid=11006640&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2


  • Practical_SeverardPractical_Severard Posts: 651 ✭✭✭
    Fighting back terrorism by sending a couple of armed people to demand an old woman to undress? The whole burkini thing is a choice of weak man, @mheredge .
  • mheredgemheredge Teacher Here and therePosts: 28,504 mod
    It is totally ridiculous @Practical_Severard. Sarkozy is cashing in to wave the racist anti-Islam flag but it really is meaningless. There was even a demonstration outside the French Embassy in London in support of the right to wear burkinis or (anything else for that matter).

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/25/burkini-french-muslim-isis?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=187616&subid=11006640&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2



    And in the UK, even the police can wear hijabs:
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/25/burkini-french-muslim-isis?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=187616&subid=11006640&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2



    Double standards abound too. It seems it's okay for Catholic nuns to sit on the beach in their gowns, but burkinis are another matter.



    I would say it is better to arrest those exposing too much blubber.

    http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/after-the-burkini-ban-people-are-asking-if-france-can-outlaw-fat-men-in-speedos-too--bJxCDWodJdb



  • Practical_SeverardPractical_Severard Posts: 651 ✭✭✭
    Well, and a mandatory burqa for every overweight person. Seriously, neither case should be a misdemeanor.
    Scratch unemployment allowance and stop accepting refugees instead.
  • BubblyBubbly Nightingale Posts: 30,131 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    It is totally nonsense and ridiculous to ban burkini. Every human has a right to accept what they think appropriate for them. I don't see any women banned in Islamic countries for wearing bikini on the beach. Some countries made some non issues a big issue for them as well as for others.
  • mheredgemheredge Teacher Here and therePosts: 28,504 mod
    It's only France @Bubbly. I'm sure there's a hidden agenda. Friends last night speculated that Sarkozy is using the ban to test the water on popular opinion. That may be the case, but sensibly the French high courts have judged the ban by the town of Villeneuve Loubert (where it all started), to be illegal. It's now a matter of time when all the other 14 French towns that are banning it toe the line and follow the high court's decision.
  • Shiny03Shiny03 Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't get it, so is it all about a conspiracy to expel the pagans?
    What's wrong about wearing burkini? As for me, I can't find other better way than wearing it.
    It'll protect myself from UV rays and prevent a sunburn.
  • mheredgemheredge Teacher Here and therePosts: 28,504 mod
    Exactly @Shiny03! But France maintains it's a secular state and has gone overboard to prohibit people to go around in public showing their religious affiliations. Obviously this is difficult for Moslem women in particular (and Sikhs with turbans). Apparently it is not even allowed to wear a crucifix around your neck if you're a Christian.
  • Shiny03Shiny03 Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So we're living in the 21st century, but our minds stay in the Paleolithic era?
    Where's the spirit of globalization?
  • BubblyBubbly Nightingale Posts: 30,131 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    I am sure that they will have to lift the ban due to international pressure. But, it is quite sure that people have a lot of time to focus on these nonsense. They have many other issues that are pending in their courts and need to be discussed.

    @Shiny03 globalisation is only in files and seminars. In reality, we are still living in the stone age!
  • Practical_SeverardPractical_Severard Posts: 651 ✭✭✭
    >>I don't see any women banned in Islamic countries for wearing bikini on the beach.
    @Bubbly, are there any public beaches in Islamic countries? Beside those intended for Western tourists, like the Egyptian gated hotels, of course. I doubt there are any and therefore I agree that the burkini is a step forward.

    >>
    Where's the spirit of globalization?
    @Shiny03, I guess the recent Nice terror attack has seriously undermined its occultic powers, so it can't haunt the Old Europe as it has done before. Still, banning the burkini or minarets is nothing more than a show version of the war on terror.

    >>
    Apparently it is not even allowed to wear a crucifix around your neck if you're a Christian.
    @meherdge, how do the French Catholic bishops cope? Orthodox Christians are required to wear a crucifix at all times, but it's traditionally done under one's shirt, e.g. on one's body.
  • mheredgemheredge Teacher Here and therePosts: 28,504 mod
    @Practical_Severard I can only assume that clergy and nuns are exempted from this rule, but I really don't know.
  • Practical_SeverardPractical_Severard Posts: 651 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2016
    > @mheredge said:
    > @Practical_Severard I can only assume that clergy and nuns are exempted from this rule, but I really don't know.

    After a quick Internet research I've figured out there are two bans in France:

    1 -on covering faces in public spaces with certain exceptions (e.g. motorcyclists while riding). It has nothing to do with the Christian clergy/monastics.

    2 - on openly wearing religious symbols in public schools only - so the clergy may simply steer clear of visiting them. Apparently the French Catholic schools, where the clerics teach, aren't public.
  • BubblyBubbly Nightingale Posts: 30,131 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    @Practical_Severard France banned even Islamic head scarf in the country.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_scarf_controversy_in_France
  • Practical_SeverardPractical_Severard Posts: 651 ✭✭✭
    Yeah, "The Conseil d'État affirmed on 5 December 2007 that the ban also apply to clothing elements that demonstrate a religious affiliation only because of the behaviour of the student. Wearing either a Sikh subturban or a bandana were then denied by the supreme court." I presume that a bandana + the behaviour demonstrating the Muslim affiliation constitute a violation.
  • mheredgemheredge Teacher Here and therePosts: 28,504 mod
    The latest horror story is that a restaurant in Paris refused to serve a Muslim Oman who was wearing a scarf @Bubbly. It's really gone out of control and is ridiculous.
  • Practical_SeverardPractical_Severard Posts: 651 ✭✭✭
    > @mheredge said:
    > The latest horror story is that a restaurant in Paris refused to serve a Muslim Oman who was wearing a scarf @Bubbly. It's really gone out of control and is ridiculous.

    That's far from a horror story. 3000 militant vigilantes destroying a mosque and the judiciary doing nothing about it while Roman Catholic priests making hateful speeches about the Muslims would be.
  • BubblyBubbly Nightingale Posts: 30,131 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    @mheredge @Practical_Severard I think that these gestures may indicate prejudice that may end up in an endless war. We are not in a position to afford another World War as previous wars have created a lot of destruction with some ripple effects that passed on to many generations. I don't see any positive outcomes of these strategies. Did I miss Donald Trump's views on this ban?
  • Practical_SeverardPractical_Severard Posts: 651 ✭✭✭
    > @Bubbly said:
    > @mheredge @Practical_Severard I think that these gestures may indicate prejudice that may end up in an endless war. We are not in a position to afford another World War...
    Of which countries would be sides of this war, @Bubbly ?
  • sanjaysanjay Posts: 32 ✭✭
    Couple of days ago one of our minister said, di not wear skirts to foreign visitors
  • mohit_singhmohit_singh Posts: 2,184 ✭✭✭✭
    @sanjay .please tell the whole story.you are saying half of it.minister gave some clarification afterward.
    You have to believe that now a days Indian media are putting their all mind in someone's saying(specifically nonsense).
    They don't have any task to do.they only need TRP.
    Minister clarify that he is talking about holly places only(shrine's ,Masjids and Gurudwara.).
    Indian culture does not allow you to go in temple without proper dress code.You should respect the tradition.and I agree with clarification.
  • mheredgemheredge Teacher Here and therePosts: 28,504 mod
    It's the same for visiting Roman Catholic churches @mohit_singh. No shorts and arms have to be covered. In very strict Catholic churches, headscarves for women are obligatory too.
  • Practical_SeverardPractical_Severard Posts: 651 ✭✭✭
    > @sanjay said:
    > Couple of days ago one of our minister said, di not wear skirts to foreign visitors
    Why skirts? I guess a full-length skirt is the most appropriate for a shrine/temple, while mini-shorts aren't.
  • Practical_SeverardPractical_Severard Posts: 651 ✭✭✭
    > @mheredge said:
    > It's the same for visiting Roman Catholic churches @mohit_singh. No shorts and arms have to be covered. In very strict Catholic churches, headscarves for women are obligatory too.

    Those lacy Catholic headscarves!

    When I was visiting the Westminster Abbey an old lady attending there told me to bare my head: "please take off your cap, you're in the church, sir!". Smelled like home. (I had simply forgotten about it). So the Anglican Church is trying to catch up. I think it's better than in the Our Lady of Paris where nobody pays attention.
  • rtamar65rtamar65 Posts: 4
    Who is to blame? Jihadist? Suicide Bomber?
  • BubblyBubbly Nightingale Posts: 30,131 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    @rtamar65 think tanks and all those who are responsible for proxy wars.
  • mheredgemheredge Teacher Here and therePosts: 28,504 mod
    Fortunately all the fuss seems to have died down about what women may or may not wear on the beach. As my friend put it, it is nonsense and no one should be telling women what they can or cannot wear.
  • Practical_SeverardPractical_Severard Posts: 651 ✭✭✭
    > @mheredge said:
    > Fortunately all the fuss seems to have died down about what women may or may not wear on the beach. As my friend put it, it is nonsense and no one should be telling women what they can or cannot wear.

    Does Corsica still ban the burkini? I read some time ago they had a large brawl over it.
  • BubblyBubbly Nightingale Posts: 30,131 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Hmm!

    Court Overturns ‘Burkini’ Ban in French Town

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/27/world/europe/france-burkini-ban.html?_r=0
This discussion has been closed.